saber tail?

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Re: saber tail?

Post  MARANT on Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:54 am

Pachino wrote:There was a change in the official standard?
Bring some of their local rules, the level of State or province?
Where formal written a new rule regarding the tail?


Official change was in 2007.

Normal written on the FCI-Website (Word-Dokument)



http://www.fci.be/nomenclature.aspx


About tails

TAIL :Natural; a sabre or sickle carriage is sought after.




But in UK is not a FCI rules and own standards.
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Re: saber tail?

Post  Jo on Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:34 am

I've noticed on some winning dogs (from photos) that the tail set seems lower on some dogs who have the saber tail - so is the shape of the whole tail now more important then the tail set under FCI?
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Re: saber tail?

Post  MARANT on Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:58 am

Jo wrote:I've noticed on some winning dogs (from photos) that the tail set seems lower on some dogs who have the saber tail - so is the shape of the whole tail now more important then the tail set under FCI?

In Germany - definitely yes !
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Re: saber tail?

Post  Pachino on Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:06 am

MARANT wrote:
Pachino wrote:There was a change in the official standard?
Bring some of their local rules, the level of State or province?
Where formal written a new rule regarding the tail?


Official change was in 2007.

Normal written on the FCI-Website (Word-Dokument)


http://www.fci.be/nomenclature.aspx




About tails

TAIL :Natural; a sabre or sickle carriage is sought after.




But in UK is not a FCI rules and own standards.

and the tail is sickle. no?
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Re: saber tail?

Post  Pachino on Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:08 am

both 1 and 2 are the sickle!
Written somewhere that the top of the sickle must not touch the back? where it says?
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Re: saber tail?

Post  Pachino on Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:15 am

Germany has long lost its primacy to the Schnauzer, for example, and the Doberman
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Re: saber tail?

Post  Pachino on Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:18 am

the standard is a natural tail. Dogs that win today? docked.
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Re: saber tail?

Post  MARANT on Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:23 am

and the tail is sickle. no?

Yes Wink


Written somewhere that the top of the sickle must not touch the back?

No, officially this is nowhere written Wink
But the most judges say so and judged so. And you can not protest Evil or Very Mad

And the judges, they are always writing here, if the tail correctly or not correctly.

And if you show your dog in Germany or Holland this nuance will be very important.




Аll in all, touching back with the tail or putting a tail on the back - it is undesirable nuance.


Last edited by MARANT on Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: saber tail?

Post  MARANT on Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:28 am

Post edit


Last edited by MARANT on Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: saber tail?

Post  MARANT on Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:35 am

[quote="MARANT"]
Pachino wrote:Germany has long lost its primacy to the Schnauzer, for example, and the Doberman


What is the difference?

Germany still writes STANDARDS and dictate the rules - and for the Schnauzer, and Dobermans, and Rottweilers, and for the rest of the German breeds.

And FCI introduces changes in the standards by the decision of the German Kennel Club.

And the primacy in exhibitions does not play any role in this case .... I think so.



PS. I write in this topic only because I have had some bad experience with the tails here in Germany... Sad
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Re: saber tail?

Post  Pachino on Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:39 am

not in the standard, not officially written anywhere, SOME judges judge according to his discretion as to which comes to mind.
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Re: saber tail?

Post  MARANT on Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:52 am

Pachino wrote:not in the standard, not officially written anywhere, SOME judges judge according to his discretion as to which comes to mind.

Not "SOME", but "MOST" judges.

Argue so: they want а correct tail - a sabre or sickle.

Correct tail also depends on the structure of the croup.

With the correct structure of the croup and the backside (and ligaments), the tail should not lie on the back.

I can not say, that I agree with that.... but it is a fact, and if I live here and if I breeding dogs here and participate in exhibitions, I have to accept it.
No other choice.

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Re: saber tail?

Post  Pachino on Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:07 am

There is one very very beautiful and successful black and silver schnauzer he has one tooth p1, I asked how he became a great champion, it was estimated throughout Europe. he replied ... "Very Simply, I did not take him to the competition in the German and the German judge"
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Re: saber tail?

Post  Pachino on Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:08 pm

you would not buy this puppy just because of "the bad" tail?
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Re: saber tail?

Post  sjannella on Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:21 pm

I am the owner of the Black Jacomo puppy bought at Pachino.
I have clearly asked for the tail, I also clearly gezegt NO pigtail.
He gave me his word and told me the pup has a good tail.
I asked him several times again before I bought the puppy.
The puppy had no curl, but a good tail.
So I bought the puppy.
on December 1 I have collected, and what I saw to my surprise a huge ugly curly tail.
I and [then burst into tears.
I have a breeder Pachino mail are sent immediately, but want to know about anything.
what do I have to do with a curly tail shows do here?
I have no puppy with curled tail, but bought a puppy with a straight tail.
I trust this breeder, but I got a totally different puppy.
I shall post pictures of before I bought the puppy and I have now.
but that's not all.
I also bought the little sister for a breeder here in the Netherlands.
the bitch has a kinked tail, an umbilical hernia, terrible ears are never good for legs as thin as my finger.
The breeder does not handle that, he has nothing on the tail gezegt dog before I paid, he has concealed anything, what should we have a dog with tail kink ????????????????? ???????????
I would like to answer what are we doing here??
Tonight I make pictures of Jasmine's sister Jacomo.
then everyone will see that this does NOT show dog can be.
Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad


this is jacomo when i got him .
look picture on this picture his tail looks oke ,but when he is moving he has horrebble tail Evil or Very Mad
also on puppy picture jacomo has big ears how its posibble that his ears are so smal and high ??

his eyes are round and smal ,schnauzer has amandel eyes he loks like a puppy from a nother planet
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Re: saber tail?

Post  sjannella on Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:51 pm


not good tail
not strait tail Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
this is jacomo with bad curly tail
also ears are not oke
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Re: saber tail?

Post  Pachino on Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:17 pm

-They accused me that you Jacomo is long in the body. whether it is of Justin, you tell the truth? it is not square? height = length of the body, it is stronger, you do not speak the truth!
-Then after that I accuse Jacomo has a short head, small head. Do Jacomo has a short head? Jacomo head half body length or 1 / 2 height Jacomo, Jacomo by the head, not small!
-This Jacomo, Jacomo it, Jacomo ....

You talk about belly button hernia. photograph and a picture set here that all we see.

Jacomo

Jacomo

Jacomo

Jacomo

Jacomo

Jacomo
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Re: saber tail?

Post  D'el casa di Vita on Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:00 pm

So the puppy is al ready in holland??

Is this the same puppy???
They don't look the same???
The eyes are so different...and the white mark on the chin...??
The first has more white then the one with big ears???

sjannella wrote:




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Re: saber tail?

Post  Olga on Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:07 pm

I´m sorry, Zeljko, but it looks like totally different dog on the pictures posted by you and by Sjannella. And I´ll be sincere I like your pictures more, but the real dog is on the pictures of Sjannella!!!
The matter of tail is very delicate, because different countries and consideration of what is correct is totally different. I know that Sjannella asked totally straight tail in all her mail, because it was VERY important for her. May be this puppy would be ok for any other breeder, but not for Netherland.
In the matter of umbilical hernia and an accident of the female tail, you said NOTHING!! Evil or Very Mad It's not correct! You should mention to the buyer, so the client can decide what to do, if to buy or not! I know that hernia can be operated, but it's an additional cost for the buyer, so you have to say it before taking money! Without mentioning that an accident on the tail - it's impossible to show such dog!
In my personal opinion, you didn´t act correctly in this situation, but you are still in time to give a solution to the buyers.
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Re: saber tail?

Post  Olga on Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:11 pm

Totally agree Marian, it looks like different puppy! Surprised
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Re: saber tail?

Post  sjannella on Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:12 pm


his body is not bad ,i told you ,but not short,
his head is very very smal aganst his body .
i am not stupend.
and on puppy pictures jacomo has big ears ,the puppy that i have has very smal thin ears .
tonight the owner of youre female is coming and i make pictures ,you have too do something .
becourse the female is absoluut horreble .
dont saying the puppy's are show kwalitit
no zeljko you must do someting oder i have too take oder staps Evil or Very Mad .
you promised show dogs ,the male has curly tail so no show dog for mi .
the fenale her tail is not oke .
you sent mi a mail after i ask you why you sel dog with nik tail .
you sent mi a e-mail the female has exedent and broken her tail .
you nevert tel mi that when i take the female.
shew is now in holand and now you telling that her tail is not corekt .
theis female can 't not showed her .
now i am very angry
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Re: saber tail?

Post  Jo on Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:55 pm

Pachino wrote:you would not buy this puppy just because of "the bad" tail?

That puppy looks to have a squirrel tail, you would see that even if the puppy was docked, the tail set is not quite right.


The photos of Jacomo you posted and Sjanella has posted are supposed to be the same dog? Surprised
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Re: saber tail?

Post  snasapjasa on Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:02 pm

It does not look like the same dog, sorry Surprised
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Re: saber tail?

Post  sjannella on Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:03 pm

I am always honest with everyone.
I trusted his word on this breeder.
You should know best that I've cried a lot when I got Jacomo.
The dream I had was one second away.
waited long for this pup, and then this.
You may best know that I am very sad.
Jacomo is a guy leif. I love him very much, but I can not do anything with him.
I trust no one, I dare not.
I'm sick of that you may know best.

Sad Sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
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Re: saber tail?

Post  Pachino on Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:44 pm

D'el casa di Vita wrote:So the puppy is al ready in holland??

Is this the same puppy???
They don't look the same???
The eyes are so different...and the white mark on the chin...??
The first has more white then the one with big ears???

sjannella wrote:

http://www.mijnalbum.nl/Foto-8J8LGFMN-D.jpg
http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/15/77/17/31/jacomo10.gif


What is your people, and with another puppy, mine is just that a small puppy. even die I had intended to give him another puppy I have not had one Jacomo, no more.
Photos are in different age pup.
Ears when they were never shaved hair very very short, stand like in my photos. It's a dog alone, only on men, no other small puppy! can not be accidentally on purpose to replace the puppy with me when one
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Re: saber tail?

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