Speaking of Tails...

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Speaking of Tails...

Post  MsBritmor on Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:25 am

I wanted to put this in a different thread.

Someone (on here?) had a photo of a puppy with apparently a bad tail, and she had wrapped that tail with tape (much like we do with cropped ears) so that it was fairly straight. She felt that it helped to straighten that tail a bit. If that was on here, what does that tail look like now. Did it work?

This seems like this might be a viable way to help out some of these tails, but it would seem to me that it should be started very early in their life before the cartilage has hardened and the muscles and ligaments are set in place doing their thing. I know that I have NEVER seen a bad tail in my newborns before tails have been docked, and don't think I have on here either, since so many of you post photos of your newborns. They all look straight. The two dogs I sent to Italy seemed to produce two different types of tails, so I suspect that there is a natural range of tails here in my dogs.

Does anyone else have an opinion on this? When do those tails start to curve over?

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Re: Speaking of Tails...

Post  snasapjasa on Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:22 am

The newborn never seem to have curly tail. Not that ive seen. But it is very common if they have "bad" tails that it starded to show about the time they start to walk..ore maby in some cases older. But you can abviously see it before the age of 8 expecialy the "pig" tails, but if they curve a bit on the back ore to either side a bit, maby its hard to see this before 8 weeks, but my expiriance is that you see this early:)

In our contry it is not a problem for us to show these dog in the ring, not if they have a bit curly tail, but if they have "pig" tail the judge might put them down for it, but we have never had a German judge, not that i can recall.

For me health is more important than the tail, health problems that might harm the dog, not the look. Affcourse i would prefer both but you cant have it all. We breed and try to make the best out of what we have, if everything was perfect why breed:)))

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Re: Speaking of Tails...

Post  des matins de cristal on Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:35 pm

5 weeks old :


6 monthes old :



The other puppies are do the same way ... bad tail and excellent tail at adult age ... for me it's very difficult to say somethink about the tail at puppies age ....
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Re: Speaking of Tails...

Post  Jo on Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:40 pm

http://schnauzer.dogboard.net/birth-and-nursing-puppies-f37/ears-and-tail-how-to-help-t706.htm?highlight=tail+wrap

that thread?? it was Beatrice who posted photos but then took them off later.
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Re: Speaking of Tails...

Post  snasapjasa on Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:55 pm

Here is A puppy 5 weeks old
[img]
The same puppy at 7 weeks
[/img][img][/img]

Today he is almost 6 months old and has bad tail, maby not all the way to "piggy" but its curled.

Ive also heard about tails that are bad at 6 weeks that turne up to be very good at 6 months!!! So it depends on how the tailset is, i quess like sombody talked about.


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Re: Speaking of Tails...

Post  MsBritmor on Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:34 pm

Yes, Jo, that must have been the thread. I found that photo very interesting as I had never thought of "tails" before since we always dock here. We only have to worry about tailset... how the tail sits in relation to the croup.

I don't see how a tail can be "bad" as a puppy, and then become straighter as an adult (by itself); it doesn't seem like that should be possible. I very much dislike intact tails on schnauzers, but prefer the straighter ones to the curved. If we couldn't dock tails here, I would probably have to try to straighten any that were curved too much.... but who knows? Maybe I would get use to them eventually. I do like my uncropped ears now.

But I guess my point is, for those of you who REALLY dislike curved tails, why not try fixing them instead of ranting about them if you get one? A tail is just one part of the dog. If one would work with the ears, why not work with the tail? How important IS that tail? Here we still cut them off. ::grin::

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Re: Speaking of Tails...

Post  D'el casa di Vita on Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:59 pm

But you must try to breed a good tail and if you alway must curved the tails...you can't breed the right tail.
I don't think that a very curly tail can't be curved,just like the ears,not all the ears can't help to hang.
Do you breed with dogs who don't have the right ears??
My own breed dogs have all good tail,Gomez not,but if i used him on my female than he give the right tail,beauce my line has already good tails.
I think you must try to take the best dogs.
And ofcourse a tail is a part of a dog,but sometimes you must also go for the tail Wink
Here it is now almost 10 years that we can't cropped the tails....so it became the time that the tail must be right i think Wink
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Re: Speaking of Tails...

Post  MARANT on Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:19 am

But I guess my point is, for those of you who REALLY dislike curved tails, why not try fixing them instead of ranting about them if you get one? A tail is just one part of the dog. If one would work with the ears, why not work with the tail? How important IS that tail? Here we still cut them off. :😁:

Hello!

I really dislike curved tails.
And I am ( but only just me, I know many breeders in Europa, who makes it too) trying to fixing them.
But it is not so easy, because it is unpredictable. Never know in advance which combination will not give bad tails.
There are some producers and lines, who often give bad tails. I try to avoid their use in breeding.
But so far we know that, even when pairing of two dogs with perfect tails, in the litter may appear bad tails, too.

And what's also interesting and surprising - there is a breed dogs with bad tails, that do not pass on their tails for their children (if we assume that statistically, the minimum percentage).

I want to draw attention to, what I'm talking only about the form of the tail, I mean not a tailset!
Because even with a good tailset, its form can still be bad Surprised

While I can only sort my puppies - I sell puppies with the bad tails as a pet class.

If you know the technique of the fixing of a bad tails, please share with us!
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Re: Speaking of Tails...

Post  Jo on Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:31 am

Marant, a method was discussed in the link I provided above. It basically involved wrapping the tail in tape for 2 weeks at a time, while the dog is still a young puppy.
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Re: Speaking of Tails...

Post  MARANT on Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:45 am

Jo wrote:Marant, a method was discussed in the link I provided above. It basically involved wrapping the tail in tape for 2 weeks at a time, while the dog is still a young puppy.

Oh, no!!! scary

I once again misunderstood the English! Crying or Very sad

I mean a method to avoid the appearance of a bad tails!

"Fixing" it means wrap with the patch?

No, no, I do not want and do not want to do! I mean their elimination / breeding good tails / to get rid of bad tails in breeding in general.

Of course, without the aid of the patch ...
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Re: Speaking of Tails...

Post  MsBritmor on Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:08 am

MARANT wrote:
I mean a method to avoid the appearance of a bad tails!

"Fixing" it means wrap with the patch?

No, no, I do not want and do not want to do! I mean their elimination / breeding good tails / to get rid of bad tails in breeding in general.

Of course, without the aid of the patch ...

The only way I know of to eliminate any fault that one does not want is to NEVER breed to (or from) a dog that shows that fault. And, also, look to the parents and grandparents of that dog, if you can. Eventually, one should get dogs who do not have that fault... or the fault is buried so far back in the pedigree that it is rarely produced anymore.

I did this with white on my BS dogs. Any puppy I produced that I felt had too much white on it was placed as a pet. White toes/white splotches (large spots)... it was out the door. Any white I get now is very, very small and usually fills in with black hair as the dog ages. Another breeder here who had a similar pedigree to mine did not do that, and she ended up with HUGE areas of white on the undersides of her dogs after a few years.

If you don't want it, don't breed it.

By the way, D'el casa di Vita, I have pretty good uncropped ears on my dogs... sometimes a bit larger than I like, but acceptable to me. I have not cropped ears now for 12 years, but if I want to breed out of my line, I have to breed to a cropped dog.... and I have no idea what type of ears that dog really has (had) because almost everyone here still crops the ears on their showdogs.

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Re: Speaking of Tails...

Post  MARANT on Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:50 am

The only way I know of to eliminate any fault that one does not want is to NEVER breed to (or from) a dog that shows that fault. And, also, look to the parents and grandparents of that dog, if you can. Eventually, one should get dogs who do not have that fault... or the fault is buried so far back in the pedigree that it is rarely produced anymore.


Yes, that's what I think. And try to act as well. Therefore, I alway place as a pet my puppies with bad tails.
And I always try to watch and pay attention to which lines often carry this fault.
But this is not always helpful with the succession of a bad tails. Because, as I have said, even with two parents with good tails, the puppies could be born with the bad one.
Another reason that in the pedigree are often cropped dogs... Sad


As for the white spots by black-silver puppies.... I did not have much experience, but I have never had it by my puppies ... scratch
By the black color puppies were a little bit, but by bs - until never. But I have seen sometimes on the pictures by another breeders. I always thought it was a serious fault.

But I understand what you mean. To breed the good tails by analogy with white spots.








I have not cropped ears now for 12 years, but if I want to breed out of my line, I have to breed to a cropped dog.... and I have no idea what type of ears that dog really has (had) because almost everyone here still crops the ears on their showdogs.


Then you have come to the European dogs Very Happy

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Re: Speaking of Tails...

Post  D'el casa di Vita on Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:23 am

Ears should not come above the head and should fall along the head.
Not all the dogs have the same ears.
My Zippo has a little terrier ears,it looks realy with alot temperament.
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Re: Speaking of Tails...

Post  Jo on Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:39 pm

D'el casa di Vita wrote:Ears should not come above the head and should fall along the head.
Not all the dogs have the same ears.
My Zippo has a little terrier ears,it looks realy with alot temperament.

I have started a new topic about ears. I thought it would be interesting to share what we all think are ideal ears according to our own breed standards
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Re: Speaking of Tails...

Post  MsBritmor on Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:00 am

MARANT wrote:Then you have come to the European dogs Very Happy

Very much so, Marant! I love a dog with a lot of substance. I want to see muscling and body on a dog. Many dogs here in my country are losing this; they truly are becoming too terrier, and I do not like it. I think that some of my dogs do look more European than American now. So be it. I breed to please myself... no one else.

I love the look of many of the European dogs, IF they can move. One must be careful not to concentrate on certain parts of the dog more than the others... balance, balance, BALANCE. Some of you pay too much attention to toplines and shoulders, and ignore the rears. Here we have some breeders we call "head hunters". All they care about is a beautiful head... and the rest of the dog is a wreck. OOPS! Not good.

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Re: Speaking of Tails...

Post  MARANT on Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:57 pm

MsBritmor wrote:

Very much so, Marant! I love a dog with a lot of substance. I want to see muscling and body on a dog. Many dogs here in my country are losing this; they truly are becoming too terrier, and I do not like it. I think that some of my dogs do look more European than American now. So be it. I breed to please myself... no one else.

I love the look of many of the European dogs, IF they can move. One must be careful not to concentrate on certain parts of the dog more than the others... balance, balance, BALANCE. Some of you pay too much attention to toplines and shoulders, and ignore the rears. Here we have some breeders we call "head hunters". All they care about is a beautiful head... and the rest of the dog is a wreck. OOPS! Not good.

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