Legg Perthes

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Legg Perthes

Post  Myltan on Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:37 pm

Hi all schnauzer friends!

Is there anyone out there with experience of Legg Perthes on mini schnauzers? I have tried to find some facts about it with other breeders and on the web but with no luck. Would be thankful if anyone could help me. Post a reply or contact me personally at
myltan@spray.se

Maria

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Post  sternenhoch on Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:46 pm

Hi Maria, I never heard about it by schnauzers, I know that Luxation of Patella is sometimes by minies but this I never heard...

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Re: Legg Perthes

Post  MsBritmor on Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:25 pm

There are many references on the internet that say that Miniature Schnauzers have this problem, but I have personally not ever heard of one. It is a hereditary disease.

I am, however, very familiar with the surgery to "fix" it, as our Witch had that surgery (femoral head and neck ostectomy) after getting a dislocated hip in the yard after being run into by a larger dog as the dogs were jumping up on the fence (at least that is what we guessed happened since no one saw it). If you need more information on this, let me know. This surgery involves a LOT of physical therapy and rehabilitation in order to get the dog walking properly again.... and it starts immediately after the surgery so that the dog can retain its range of motion.

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Re: Legg Perthes

Post  Myltan on Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:05 pm

I am, however, very familiar with the surgery to "fix" it, as our Witch had that surgery (femoral head and neck ostectomy) ]

Thank you for your reply! I know of this surgery. I asked the question if it is inherited to more than one vet and got different answers from all. I know that the WHW terrier club in Sweden sanctioned a test breeding between two affected dogs, I think in the 80´s, and the whole litter was free. That talks against a resessive gene. Some say, vet, it is a fluke and some say resessive gene with generation "jumps".
I am hoping to hear from someone who has had a dog with Perthes.

Myltan


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Re: Legg Perthes

Post  Jo on Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:13 am

One test mating of a breed that produces small litters could just produce some clears and the rest carriers with none actually affected, it would not be proof of whether the gene was a simple recessive or something more complicated or just bad luck.
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Re: Legg Perthes

Post  MsBritmor on Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:40 am

Yes, genetics can be a very strange thing.

I bred a BS to a SP carrying the BS gene (simple recessive) and got SIX BS puppies. I should NOT have gotten that many.

And one year I bred a black bitch to a BS male in the hopes of getting a good black male.... and the first three puppies were SP females! (There were eventually three blacks and one BS.)

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Legg Perthes

Post  Myltan on Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:54 pm

Jo wrote:One test mating of a breed that produces small litters could just produce some clears and the rest carriers with none actually affected, it would not be proof of whether the gene was a simple recessive or something more complicated or just bad luck.

Correct me if I am wrong but an affected dog (simple recessive) is homozygotus. If you mate two affected they could never, no matter how big the litter, get anything BUT affected puppies.
Maria

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Re: Legg Perthes

Post  MsBritmor on Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:47 am

Myltan wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong but an affected dog (simple recessive) is homozygotus. If you mate two affected they could never, no matter how big the litter, get anything BUT affected puppies.
Maria

Not exactly. A homozygous dog... say, a dog homozygous for black, will ONLY produce that trait (color), no matter WHAT color that dog is bred with or the color genes its mate carries. A dog that "expresses" a simple recessive trait (he has two genes for it; he is "affected" with it... think BS here) at best can only produce carriers for that trait if he is bred to another that does not carry that gene. If he mates with another who also carries two genes for that same trait (is "affected" with that same recessive trait), then all of their offspring will express that trait (be BS) since the parents cannot pass along any other genes (for that trait).

A testbreeding is done by breeding an affected to a dog with unknown genetics (for whatever trait is being tested). This really works best if what is being tested for is transmitted as a simple recessive gene (such as congenital cataracts). The dog with unknown genetics should be testbred by producing over 13 "normal" offspring to be sure that it does not carry that recessive gene. If the gene transmission is anything other than simple recessive, it is useless to testbred as that gene could be coming down through only the affected parent and not the unknown.... such as a dominant gene with variable penetrance. If one breeds two dogs and comes down with a problem it is usually safe to say that one of the dogs is a carrier (if not affected) for that problem.... and quite possibly both dogs are carriers. We don't yet know the genetic transmission of many health problems we see.

(And that is about as far as my knowledge of genetics goes.)

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Legg Perthes

Post  Myltan on Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:55 am

OK. So in this case with two affected (sick) WHW terriers mated to each other that came up with a litter of I think 5 or 6 pups, all free of Perthes what does that tell us?
Maria

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Re: Legg Perthes

Post  MsBritmor on Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:30 am

Myltan wrote:OK. So in this case with two affected (sick) WHW terriers mated to each other that came up with a litter of I think 5 or 6 pups, all free of Perthes what does that tell us?
Maria

That it is NOT transmitted as a simple recessive gene. It is genetically something more complex.

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Re: Legg Perthes

Post  allaboutourdogs on Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:58 am

Is this hereditary or acquired? This is a very interesting topic because lots of giant schnauzers are having these kinds of diseases on bones.
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