Rolling Coat

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Rolling Coat

Post  Alberto on Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:22 am

Do anybody of you use this grooming technique?

I normally strip my P/S Standards all the old coat down together twice a year only with hands - no stripping knive - (sometimes I have also to strip the undercoat if too much - especially after winter) and the texture and color are always good (in some case they can also improve with the time).

Do rolling coat preserve the coat quality? Is it complicated to do? Is it true that using this system dogs are in good coat condition all year round?

At shows I have seen in the past some dogs shown for all the year thanks to rolling coat (and scissors too?), but after 1-2 years the coat (I am talking about P/S) became much more greyish than brillliant pepper salt.
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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  Jo on Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:47 pm

My giant has been in a rolled coat for several years now. My young p/s male mini has been in a rolled coat since December last year - I stripped out his long coat and he had a perfect length coat underneath! The colour and texture is as good as ever.

NO to using scissors on the harsh coat.
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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  Alberto on Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:48 pm

Jo wrote:My giant has been in a rolled coat for several years now. My young p/s male mini has been in a rolled coat since December last year - I stripped out his long coat and he had a perfect length coat underneath! The colour and texture is as good as ever.

NO to using scissors on the harsh coat.

Don't you think that having hair of different length on the body of the dog in case of banded ('agouti') coat like the P/S can modify the overall tone of the color, making it look uneven? Shorter hair can give black for their tip, longer ones can give white for the central part more exposed... Maybe it's a stupid question, but I ask you because I never experienced coats like that - I'm from the old school (I hand-strip also the legs of my dogs)!
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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  Jo on Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:13 pm

Alberto wrote:
Jo wrote:My giant has been in a rolled coat for several years now. My young p/s male mini has been in a rolled coat since December last year - I stripped out his long coat and he had a perfect length coat underneath! The colour and texture is as good as ever.

NO to using scissors on the harsh coat.

Don't you think that having hair of different length on the body of the dog in case of banded ('agouti') coat like the P/S can modify the overall tone of the color, making it look uneven? Shorter hair can give black for their tip, longer ones can give white for the central part more exposed... Maybe it's a stupid question, but I ask you because I never experienced coats like that - I'm from the old school (I hand-strip also the legs of my dogs)!

This is my boy



Does it look uneven in colour to you? That was taken in the springtime, his coat looks even better now!
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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  MsBritmor on Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:43 pm

I have been rolling coats here since I started my first one in 1980. Back then, it was believed it couldn't be done successfully on a miniature schnauzer. I picked as many brains as I could... some of the top terrier breeders and handlers of that time, both here and in Canada.

Carol Garmaker, then wife of Kurt Garmaker, told me it couldn't be done on a mini when I asked her about it. My response was, "But I am doing it on my BS, Sunny". Carol replied, "Well, then it can be done on a black coat, but not on a SP." Not too long after that, Carol was successfully showing Ch. Rampage Represenative in a rolled coat, and many others have done it since.

All but one of the dogs I have shown in conformation have been in a rolled coat since that time.

Canadian Best-in-Show-winning Am.Can.Ch. Britmor Sunnymeade Frost, Am.Can.CDX, CG


I have done a few SPs, too: Can.Ch. Britmor I'm So Blue, Am.Can.CD


Not all mini coats are good for rolling. An ideal coat is hard, doesn't have a lot of undercoat, and grows quickly. The amount of undercoat a dog carries is pretty important... too much, and it won't usually work well unless one rakes and rakes and rakes to get that undercoat under control. A slow-growing coat can be very frustrating to try to work, also. A softer coat *might* work, if the other two elements are there. Rolling a Stripped Coat

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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  MsBritmor on Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:55 pm

I forgot to mention that at least three of my dogs, Sunny, Witch, and Peter were rolled until they were about twelve years old.

Witch, MACH Britmor Bewitched, CD JE was probably around ten years old in this photo:

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rolling

Post  sternenhoch on Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:17 pm

I'm using this technic very offen, but only on some dogs with harsh coat. I tried it on female which had a lot of undercoat and than its taking the covering coat and youre standing with dog in wool only. But if the dog has harsh coat it's working very fine and you could keep the dog in coat whole year. I actualy like this method, even is making the dog a little dirty and you have to brush the dust from the lether stone out...

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Knizete Sternenhocha Miniature Schnauzers

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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  Alberto on Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:04 pm

Thank you all for the feedbacks, all your dogs look nice! It seems that I am some 10-20 years back with grooming Smile! So I must try rolling coat on one of my dogs....

Luckily my dogs have good coat texture so the result should be good - the only problem could be the groomer skills Wink . Now the question is: is there any source on the internet (or anyone of you can explain in more detail) how (and when) rolling coat should be done? Can Mars Coat King be useful for it?
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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  Jo on Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:30 pm

Have a look at the link in MSBritmors post, that shows you how to roll a coat.

Personally I would avoid cutting the coat and this is what the Coat Kings do.
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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  Alberto on Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:33 pm

Jo wrote:Have a look at the link in MSBritmors post, that shows you how to roll a coat.

Personally I would avoid cutting the coat and this is what the Coat Kings do.

Thank you very much Jo for the link and MSBritmor for the detailed article, I will read it with more ease in the week-end and I will start experimenting it on my younger female who actually has longer coat... Very Happy
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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  MsBritmor on Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:02 pm

Alberto wrote:Can Mars Coat King be useful for it?

I have used Coat Kings on occasion, and I do get into more detail on them in my article. They can be used on good (hard) coats, but I would never use them on a dog that was going to be shown in conformation as they DO cut some of the hair... some CKs more than others. They are useful if one just wants to maintain a hard coat in a pet but doesn't want to work it as religiously as one would work a showdog. Sometimes I will use them to take out some of the coat in a dog that I will eventually be rolling. It is a good way to "debulk" a coat in those early stages... like on a puppy. As the (rolled) coat improves, I would stop using the CK altogether.

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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  Szende on Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:28 am

MsBritmor wrote:
Alberto wrote:Can Mars Coat King be useful for it?

It is a good way to "debulk" a coat in those early stages... like on a puppy. As the (rolled) coat improves, I would stop using the CK altogether.

I have this b/s male puppy, from my avatar, and I can't decide to role or to strip his coat. At what age do you thing rolling should start? On the picture he is 7 weeks old, now he is 9 weeks old. Thank you
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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  Jo on Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:59 pm

It will be interesting to hear the replies to your question! As we can start showing at 6 months, I strip out the puppy at 4 months. Once the new coat comes through, it will give you a better idea of whether it will be easy to roll (quick growing, thick coats seem the easiest to keep).

BTW. cute puppy, he is the same age as 2 of mine!
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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  Szende on Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:47 pm

By stripping out you understand pulling out all hair to skin, at the same time, or you make it by regions, in 5 or 10 steps? Because I have red some articles, where they mentions these 3 forms of stripping. Please send me fresh stripped puppy photos if you can, it would help me a lot. I am also curios to see the puppies you mentioned.
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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  Jo on Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:22 pm

Szende wrote:By stripping out you understand pulling out all hair to skin, at the same time, or you make it by regions, in 5 or 10 steps? Because I have red some articles, where they mentions these 3 forms of stripping. Please send me fresh stripped puppy photos if you can, it would help me a lot. I am also curios to see the puppies you mentioned.

With puppies I tend to take it all out at once, well as much as they can tolerate in one go, but I won't leave big breaks between areas as I am not section stripping. It's nice to see the puppy stripped right out, so you can see the true shape and it will give you an idea of what areas you may like to let grow a little longer to cover dips (eg just before tail if the tail set is low or longer in the centre of the back if there is a slight dip).

However, as the dog grows and changes, the way I groom the individual will also change.

Not great photos of them! Here they are at 7 weeks old.

Beanara Indys Grace


Beanara Indys Guise
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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  MsBritmor on Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:51 pm

Szende wrote:

I have this b/s male puppy, from my avatar, and I can't decide to role or to strip his coat. At what age do you thing rolling should start? On the picture he is 7 weeks old, now he is 9 weeks old. Thank you

You could start rolling his coat now by raking through it and pulling out the loose hair once a week. I never strip a puppy this age naked (to skin), but I have puppy-stripped them.... meaning I have pulled out all of the topcoat (hard coat) and left the undercoat. When I puppystrip, I do pull down the head and front of the puppy to get that coming in hard.

If you want to see what they look like stripped out to skin, you can see photos of this on my stripping page on my website. If you have never worked coat before, you really should have someone show you how to do it properly, although this is something that one can learn to do on his own.

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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  Szende on Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:22 am

Thank you for your advice, I have finished a dog grooming school 2 years ago, and since than I do groom different pets, but for show I have only groomed my mom's West Highland White Terrier, and that is why I am asking so much about schnauzers. I thought about pulling out his coat and leaving only the undercoat,after I red your articles, but I really can't decide. Because we live in a flat, it would be easier for me to puppy-strip him now, because long hair makes bigger mass... But it really doesn't matter, only I want his coat to be prepared till April, his first show.
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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  Szende on Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:25 am

Not great photos of them! Here they are at 7 weeks old.

You have very nice puppies, do you keep them or they are for sale? My male is older with one week, he was born on 14.09.08.
I make photos with him this weekend and hope I can insert here, last time I only inserted the picture's address... Sad
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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  Jo on Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:22 pm

Szende wrote:Not great photos of them! Here they are at 7 weeks old.

You have very nice puppies, do you keep them or they are for sale? My male is older with one week, he was born on 14.09.08.
I make photos with him this weekend and hope I can insert here, last time I only inserted the picture's address... Sad

I am keeping these 2 black and silver puppies. They were born 25/9/08
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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  Szende on Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:52 pm

[quote="MsBritmor"]
Szende wrote:

You could start rolling his coat now by raking through it and pulling out the loose hair once a week. I never strip a puppy this age naked (to skin), but I have puppy-stripped them.... meaning I have pulled out all of the topcoat (hard coat) and left the undercoat. When I puppystrip, I do pull down the head and front of the puppy to get that coming in hard.

I started today puppy stripping my boy,I like how he starts to become, only I could work on half of his coat, because he became very exhausted and I think I can finish it tomorrow. Don't want to stress him too much at once, he is just getting familiar with stripping (and also do I ) Very Happy

Hope tomorrow by this time you will see pictures of him here.

What will be the next step?When should the first fresh coat appear and what do I do with the undercoat?
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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  MsBritmor on Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:33 am

The coat you pulled will not break through the skin for four weeks, although puppies do grow coat faster than adults usually. You can take a grooming stone to the undercoat once a week and work it down gradually, or wait a month and pull it all out. There are many ways to work a coat, and none are wrong as long as the end result is what you want and the dog looks "perfect".

My best "puppy pulling", by the way, is done while the puppy is sleeping in my lap.

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Britmor Miniature Schnauzers


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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  Szende on Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:09 am

MsBritmor wrote:
My best "puppy pulling", by the way, is done while the puppy is sleeping in my lap.
Yes, I have observed this also, after the first half an our he fell asleep on the table, but today I will continue stripping him in my lap, although it is a little bit uncomfortable,but everything for our puppies!! sunny
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finished

Post  Szende on Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:35 pm

Hi,
This is my finished puppy-stripping, so, how does it look like? Very Happy



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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  MsBritmor on Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:51 pm

It looks good! Just pull his head down a bit more as he looks like he is wearing a hat from the side. His skull should be at the same angle as his foreface (muzzle). We call this parallel planes.

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Re: Rolling Coat

Post  Jo on Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:55 pm

You could take off more of the black which is lying over the top of the white eyebrows.
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Re: Rolling Coat

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