Undocked tail in USA

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Re: Undocked tail in USA

Post  MsBritmor on Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:06 pm

Grovelea wrote:May i venture ........ If the coat texture is mentioned in the Breed Standard should we not take this into account when breeding?
How many people breed for the harsh leg hair that is called for in the Breed Standard.
These fabulously turned out dogs that are groomed to perfection for the show ring look amazing, but in all honesty it is done for the judges.
Dare I say ...... a 'hair do' doesn't make a schnauzer?

Here is the American (MS) breed standard on coat:

"COAT: Double, with hard, wiry, outer coat and close undercoat. The head, neck, ears, chest, tail, and body coat must be plucked. When in show condition, the body coat should be of sufficient length to determine texture. Close covering on neck, ears, and skull. Furnishings are fairly thick but not silky. Faults - Coat too soft or too smooth and slick in appearance."

Notice that there is no mention of desired hair length on legs, and texture there is only mentioned as to what is NOT desirable. Judges here do check texture on the jacket and will be observed to ruffle the coat back as they look for undercoat.

How about a translation of the FCI breed standard?

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Britmor Miniature Schnauzers


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Conformation indicates what the animal appears to be.
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Re: Undocked tail in USA

Post  Esther on Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:17 pm

FCI standard on coat.

HAIR : The coat should be wiry, harsh and dense. It consists of a dense undercoat and a not too short top coat, lying close to the body. The top coat is rough and sufficiently long to allow the checking of its texture; it is neither bristly nor wavy. The hair on the limbs tends to be less harsh. Coat short on forehead and ears. Typical characteristics are the not too soft beard on the muzzle and the bushy eyebrows which slightly shade the eyes.

Thanks Karen, I will send you some photos when we start the finishing on the grooming.

Esther


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Re: Undocked tail in USA

Post  MsBritmor on Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:30 pm

So.... it seems to me that the two breed standards are basically saying the *SAME THINGS* in regard to coat and leg hair. The only differences appear in how people interpret what is written.... which is probably related to their own preferences and how they were mentored.

(We mention nothing about beard texture in our breed standard, and I would have to say that our beards are soft.)

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Karen Brittan, Minnesota, USA
Britmor Miniature Schnauzers


Pedigree indicates what the animal should be.
Conformation indicates what the animal appears to be.
But performance indicates what the animal actually is.
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Re: Undocked tail in USA

Post  Grovelea on Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:33 pm

MsBritmor wrote:
Grovelea wrote:May i venture ........ If the coat texture is mentioned in the Breed Standard should we not take this into account when breeding?
How many people breed for the harsh leg hair that is called for in the Breed Standard.
These fabulously turned out dogs that are groomed to perfection for the show ring look amazing, but in all honesty it is done for the judges.
Dare I say ...... a 'hair do' doesn't make a schnauzer?

Here is the American (MS) breed standard on coat:

"COAT: Double, with hard, wiry, outer coat and close undercoat. The head, neck, ears, chest, tail, and body coat must be plucked. When in show condition, the body coat should be of sufficient length to determine texture. Close covering on neck, ears, and skull. Furnishings are fairly thick but not silky. Faults - Coat too soft or too smooth and slick in appearance."

Notice that there is no mention of desired hair length on legs, and texture there is only mentioned as to what is NOT desirable. Judges here do check texture on the jacket and will be observed to ruffle the coat back as they look for undercoat.

How about a translation of the FCI breed standard?

I was quoting the English Standard for Giants :- " Coat: Top Coat harsh and wiry, just short enough for smartness on the body. Slightly shorter on neck and shoulders, but blending smoothly into body coat. clean on throat, skull, ears and under tail. Good undercoat. Harsh hair on legs."
Sorry unsure of wording of the FCI standard, but, will check the English standard for Minis to see if it is different from the Giants
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Re: Undocked tail in USA

Post  Grovelea on Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:42 pm

The Schnauzer Club of Great Britain
Coat
Harsh, wiry and short enough for smartness, dense undercoat. Clean on neck and shoulders, ears and skull. Harsh hair on legs. Furnishings fairly thick but not silky.

this is the wording for Mini's
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Re: Undocked tail in USA

Post  Esther on Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:44 pm

Here is the FCI Giants standard, its the same as the miniature.

COAT

HAIR : The coat should be wiry, harsh and dense. It consists of a dense undercoat and a not too short top coat, lying close to the body.

The top coat is rough and sufficiently long to allow the checking of its texture ; it is neither bristly nor wavy. Hair on the limbs tends to be less harsh. Coat short on forehead and ears. Typical characteristics are the not too soft beard on the muzzle and the bushy eyebrows which slightly shade the eyes.

All the FCI standards are in english on the FCI homepage, www.fci.be

Esther


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USA CANADA Giant standards showing

Post  Leah~N~Vader on Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:22 am

I have been showing my Giant for several years. I have seen the natural eared Giants appearing but not alot of them. In Canada there are 2 provinces that do not allow cropping and docking. I have seen some very nice natural eared Giants, that being said I believe that judges prefer the cropped and docked Giant as that is what they are used to here. In Westminster dog show in New York ... it came down to a natural eared Giant and cropped Giant for the Breed ... this was in 2007. The cropped Giant prevailed, but only different reasons. I was proud to see this judge , JUDGE dogs and in all cases where dogs are equal then I believe the preference would go to the cropped giant just for the picture they create. This is what I have witnessed in the show ring here. There is nothing to say that an uncropped or undocked giant should be faulted in ring, it is just the judges preference.

ON a different note, Breeders here in Canada and USA are always looking to improve our beautiful breed and there are things we lack that the 'european' giants have... there is no such thing as a perfect dog - but I hope that one day we can close the gap that exists between the two different styles and see more partnerships and the result only being a better stronger, more beautiful Giant Schnauzer. I know that here in Canada we are very strict on our health testing and they are posted on websites and advertising. I think alot of people believe that Canada is so remote and unaccessible, this is not the case and there are some beautiful Giants that are being missed due to this fact. Just my opinion.
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