How many litters?

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Re: How many litters?

Post  PiedPiper on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:00 am

I'm not surprised if there is as many opinions of this topic as there are breeders..

As for my opinion - every person that produces a litter is a breeder, but only a few of them are responsible, serious breeders. It is perfectly possible that a beginner is more professional about his/her breeding than someone who has breed hundreds of litters. I therefore think it is difficult to differ between proffesional, semi-proffesional, hobby, backyard breeders etc - I prefer do differ between those who are serious about what they do and those who aren't.

I also differ between those who are experienced and not. So in my head there is four different types: 1 serious and experienced, 2 serious and unexperienced, 3 experienced but not serious and the last ones obviously 4 unexperienced and not serious. Of those I'd the worst are those who belong to group 3.

And I must say that I find it quite sad that someone automatically look down upon a beginner. Even those who have been breeding for 30-40 years and produced hundreds of champions and wonderful dogs have been beginners at a point. Kicking downwards is generally not a good quality, and one must remember that such actions are not forgotten and some day when that newbie have become an experienced breeder one may have spoilt the chances of cooperating with that person.

After all, what we all want is the best for the breed. How many litters we can have each year depends on so many different factors that the number of litters itself is not an indicator of a good or bad breeder.
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Re: How many litters?

Post  Ilovemydog on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:55 am

PiedPiper wrote:I'm not surprised if there is as many opinions of this topic as there are breeders..

As for my opinion - every person that produces a litter is a breeder, but only a few of them are responsible, serious breeders. It is perfectly possible that a beginner is more professional about his/her breeding than someone who has breed hundreds of litters. I therefore think it is difficult to differ between proffesional, semi-proffesional, hobby, backyard breeders etc - I prefer do differ between those who are serious about what they do and those who aren't.

I also differ between those who are experienced and not. So in my head there is four different types: 1 serious and experienced, 2 serious and unexperienced, 3 experienced but not serious and the last ones obviously 4 unexperienced and not serious. Of those I'd the worst are those who belong to group 3.

And I must say that I find it quite sad that someone automatically look down upon a beginner. Even those who have been breeding for 30-40 years and produced hundreds of champions and wonderful dogs have been beginners at a point. Kicking downwards is generally not a good quality, and one must remember that such actions are not forgotten and some day when that newbie have become an experienced breeder one may have spoilt the chances of cooperating with that person.

After all, what we all want is the best for the breed. How many litters we can have each year depends on so many different factors that the number of litters itself is not an indicator of a good or bad breeder.

I agree with you in your take on things and agree that it is important for experienced breeders to cooperate and share their knowledge with the newcomers. However, unfortunately there are also those, though new to breeding that think that they know it all, think they are better than their more experienced piers and seem to try to undermine all that they are doing, critisizing their every efforts to anyone that will listen. These newcomers are making a very serious mistake in doing this as they reinforce the more experienced breeders in not cooperating with them. In such a small world within specific breeds this will definately get back to the breeders targeted by the newcomers and will create a nasty moral within the kennel clubs too. Something that everyone is better off without. All we can do, regardless of being new to breeding or more experienced, is to do our best, be honest and upfront and weather the storms that most certainly lie ahead. I only wish that fairness and honesty would prevail and that people could recognise that despite all research and reading, it will never replace experience and that cooperation and respect wins more progress, than backstabbing and nasty talk, big intentions and promises of better results because the newcomers "know it all"!

I count myself lucky to know a few good breeders, be able to get good advice and options from them. Not everything can or will give the exact results I hope for, but in the end the risks are mine to take and I have to accept the responsibility for my actions myself. There is no use in blaming another more experienced breeder for giving me advice, that I chose to take and then didn't get exactly the outcome I was hoping for. After all, no puppy is perfect in every way and there is one thing for sure, surprises will happen despite all our grandest efforts. I am new to breeding, maybe not a "newborn" but only a toddler at best. Without the advise and mentoring from my more experienced breeders I would be totally lost I think and count my lucky stars that such people are willing to advise and help me, spend their time and effort into me and my breeding in every which way they can. I am greatful to them and appreciate them, and am very saddened when I see other newcomers behavior and disrespect and am afraid that they are only condemning themselves to problems, adversity and even failure as a result. I do not wish upon anyone the adversity I have witnessed being dished out by newcomers to certain more experienced and serious breeders, even though it is more likely to bite the newcomers in the ass in the end anyway.......It has been known to happen..... Razz
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Re: How many litters?

Post  PiedPiper on Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:51 am

Ilovemydog wrote:
I agree with you in your take on things and agree that it is important for experienced breeders to cooperate and share their knowledge with the newcomers. However, unfortunately there are also those, though new to breeding that think that they know it all, think they are better than their more experienced piers and seem to try to undermine all that they are doing, critisizing their every efforts to anyone that will listen. These newcomers are making a very serious mistake in doing this as they reinforce the more experienced breeders in not cooperating with them. In such a small world within specific breeds this will definately get back to the breeders targeted by the newcomers and will create a nasty moral within the kennel clubs too. Something that everyone is better off without. All we can do, regardless of being new to breeding or more experienced, is to do our best, be honest and upfront and weather the storms that most certainly lie ahead. I only wish that fairness and honesty would prevail and that people could recognise that despite all research and reading, it will never replace experience and that cooperation and respect wins more progress, than backstabbing and nasty talk, big intentions and promises of better results because the newcomers "know it all"!

I count myself lucky to know a few good breeders, be able to get good advice and options from them. Not everything can or will give the exact results I hope for, but in the end the risks are mine to take and I have to accept the responsibility for my actions myself. There is no use in blaming another more experienced breeder for giving me advice, that I chose to take and then didn't get exactly the outcome I was hoping for. After all, no puppy is perfect in every way and there is one thing for sure, surprises will happen despite all our grandest efforts. I am new to breeding, maybe not a "newborn" but only a toddler at best. Without the advise and mentoring from my more experienced breeders I would be totally lost I think and count my lucky stars that such people are willing to advise and help me, spend their time and effort into me and my breeding in every which way they can. I am greatful to them and appreciate them, and am very saddened when I see other newcomers behavior and disrespect and am afraid that they are only condemning themselves to problems, adversity and even failure as a result. I do not wish upon anyone the adversity I have witnessed being dished out by newcomers to certain more experienced and serious breeders, even though it is more likely to bite the newcomers in the ass in the end anyway.......It has been known to happen..... Razz

Ah yes, let me add a fifth group: 5 the smartasses/know it alls. These appears in all the other groups, and the general appearance of those is that they are not very likeable.

The perfect dog is not yet born, and is not likely to ever be, but that is our goal anyways. Being humble is an underestimated virtue, no matter if you are a beginner of very experienced. Humble in the way that we realize there is still a lot to learn, always. I am truly lucky as I have several very experienced breeders around me which are willing to teach me all they can, otherwize I don't think I would have dared to venture into this business at all.

But - this is really another topic, isn't it? Embarassed
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Re: How many litters?

Post  Elis on Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:58 am

Ilovemydog wrote:
PiedPiper wrote:I'm not surprised if there is as many opinions of this topic as there are breeders..

As for my opinion - every person that produces a litter is a breeder, but only a few of them are responsible, serious breeders. It is perfectly possible that a beginner is more professional about his/her breeding than someone who has breed hundreds of litters. I therefore think it is difficult to differ between proffesional, semi-proffesional, hobby, backyard breeders etc - I prefer do differ between those who are serious about what they do and those who aren't.

I also differ between those who are experienced and not. So in my head there is four different types: 1 serious and experienced, 2 serious and unexperienced, 3 experienced but not serious and the last ones obviously 4 unexperienced and not serious. Of those I'd the worst are those who belong to group 3.

And I must say that I find it quite sad that someone automatically look down upon a beginner. Even those who have been breeding for 30-40 years and produced hundreds of champions and wonderful dogs have been beginners at a point. Kicking downwards is generally not a good quality, and one must remember that such actions are not forgotten and some day when that newbie have become an experienced breeder one may have spoilt the chances of cooperating with that person.

After all, what we all want is the best for the breed. How many litters we can have each year depends on so many different factors that the number of litters itself is not an indicator of a good or bad breeder.

I agree with you in your take on things and agree that it is important for experienced breeders to cooperate and share their knowledge with the newcomers. However, unfortunately there are also those, though new to breeding that think that they know it all, think they are better than their more experienced piers and seem to try to undermine all that they are doing, critisizing their every efforts to anyone that will listen. These newcomers are making a very serious mistake in doing this as they reinforce the more experienced breeders in not cooperating with them. In such a small world within specific breeds this will definately get back to the breeders targeted by the newcomers and will create a nasty moral within the kennel clubs too. Something that everyone is better off without. All we can do, regardless of being new to breeding or more experienced, is to do our best, be honest and upfront and weather the storms that most certainly lie ahead. I only wish that fairness and honesty would prevail and that people could recognise that despite all research and reading, it will never replace experience and that cooperation and respect wins more progress, than backstabbing and nasty talk, big intentions and promises of better results because the newcomers "know it all"!

I count myself lucky to know a few good breeders, be able to get good advice and options from them. Not everything can or will give the exact results I hope for, but in the end the risks are mine to take and I have to accept the responsibility for my actions myself. There is no use in blaming another more experienced breeder for giving me advice, that I chose to take and then didn't get exactly the outcome I was hoping for. After all, no puppy is perfect in every way and there is one thing for sure, surprises will happen despite all our grandest efforts. I am new to breeding, maybe not a "newborn" but only a toddler at best. Without the advise and mentoring from my more experienced breeders I would be totally lost I think and count my lucky stars that such people are willing to advise and help me, spend their time and effort into me and my breeding in every which way they can. I am greatful to them and appreciate them, and am very saddened when I see other newcomers behavior and disrespect and am afraid that they are only condemning themselves to problems, adversity and even failure as a result. I do not wish upon anyone the adversity I have witnessed being dished out by newcomers to certain more experienced and serious breeders, even though it is more likely to bite the newcomers in the ass in the end anyway.......It has been known to happen..... Razz

What would you call an experienced breeder?
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